A Large & Growing Number Not Eligible for PFE Vaccine?

icemandios
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A Large & Growing Number Not Eligible for PFE Vaccine? Nov 11, 2020 16:04:04 GMT

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Post by icemandios on Nov 11, 2020 16:04:04 GMT

Something that hasn't drawn much attention appears as the very first bullet point in the PFE PR about the vaccine trial:

Vaccine candidate was found to be more than 90% effective in preventing COVID-19 in participants without evidence of prior SARS-CoV-2 infection in the first interim efficacy analysis

www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-vaccine-candidate-against

Going to ClinicalTrials.gov, the exclusion criteria confirms that potential subjects who had a positive test for Sars-Cov-2 and symptoms are excluded from participation:

Exclusion Criteria

Previous clinical (based on COVID-19 symptoms/signs alone, if a SARS-CoV-2 NAAT result was not available) or microbiological (based on COVID-19 symptoms/signs and a positive SARS-CoV-2 NAAT result) diagnosis of COVID 19

clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728?term=pfizer+covid&draw=2&rank=1

The SARS-CoV-2 NAAT is also commonly known as Diagnostic test, viral test, molecular test, nucleic acid amplification test (NAAT), RT-PCR test, LAMP test.

www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/coronavirus-disease-2019-testing-basics

Since this group of subjects has been excluded from the trial, the efficacy and safety of the vaccine can not be known for them. Therefore, people such as Pres. Trump, Milania Trump, Baron Trump, Boris Johnson, Rand Paul and many others would not be, so far, candidates for the vaccine.

Absent another clinical trial which would include those previously infected and recovered, if you've had Covid19 symptoms and a positive test, I guess you're screwed.

Last Edit: Nov 11, 2020 16:05:32 GMT by icemandios

lookingforatenbagger
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A Large & Growing Number Not Eligible for PFE Vaccine? Nov 11, 2020 17:49:17 GMT

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Post by lookingforatenbagger on Nov 11, 2020 17:49:17 GMT

I am afraid you're stretching. They were excluded because they are likely already immune, at least in the short term. best to aim the vaccine at the 90% of the population without anti-bodies for the first shot at a vaccine, don't you agree??

Brandolini's Law: The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than that needed to produce it.

icemandios
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A Large & Growing Number Not Eligible for PFE Vaccine? Nov 11, 2020 18:39:20 GMT thought013 likes this

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Post by icemandios on Nov 11, 2020 18:39:20 GMT

Nov 11, 2020 17:49:17 GMT lookingforatenbagger said:

I am afraid you're stretching. They were excluded because they are likely already immune, at least in the short term. best to aim the vaccine at the 90% of the population without anti-bodies for the first shot at a vaccine, don't you agree??

Could be immune, more likely b/c they already have some level of antibodies. But I am stretching nothing. Fact is, the trial excluded a class of people and there will be no data about how the vaccine affects those people. If the vax is approved as is, the label will show the exclusion. The same goes for all the many other exclusions. Look at the link for the trial to see the long list of exclusions.

lookingforatenbagger
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A Large & Growing Number Not Eligible for PFE Vaccine? Nov 11, 2020 18:54:24 GMT icemandios and thought013 like this

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Post by lookingforatenbagger on Nov 11, 2020 18:54:24 GMT

Nov 11, 2020 18:39:20 GMT icemandios said:

Nov 11, 2020 17:49:17 GMT lookingforatenbagger said:

I am afraid you're stretching. They were excluded because they are likely already immune, at least in the short term. best to aim the vaccine at the 90% of the population without anti-bodies for the first shot at a vaccine, don't you agree??

Could be immune, more likely b/c they already have some level of antibodies. But I am stretching nothing. Fact is, the trial excluded a class of people and there will be no data about how the vaccine affects those people. If the vax is approved as is, the label will show the exclusion. The same goes for all the many other exclusions. Look at the link for the trial to see the long list of exclusions.

A contractor once told me There are three things everyone wants Speed, Quality and Cost. At best, you can have two out of three.

I'm not going to be getting the vaccine any time soon, but then I haven't been hiding in my basement either, so...

Brandolini's Law: The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than that needed to produce it.

greys
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A Large & Growing Number Not Eligible for PFE Vaccine? Nov 12, 2020 19:27:14 GMT lookingforatenbagger likes this

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Post by greys on Nov 12, 2020 19:27:14 GMT

Jan 22, 2016 18:48:03 GMT lookingforatenbagger said:

Speed, Quality and Cost. At best, you can have two out of three.

Project management 101...www.rapidbi.com/time-quality-cost-you-can-have-any-two/ :-)

Last Edit: Nov 12, 2020 19:27:40 GMT by greys

miamianne67
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A Large & Growing Number Not Eligible for PFE Vaccine? Nov 12, 2020 20:08:02 GMT sgard434 and icemandios like this

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Post by miamianne67 on Nov 12, 2020 20:08:02 GMT

Nov 11, 2020 16:04:04 GMT icemandios said:

Something that hasn't drawn much attention appears as the very first bullet point in the PFE PR about the vaccine trial:

Vaccine candidate was found to be more than 90% effective in preventing COVID-19 in participants without evidence of prior SARS-CoV-2 infection in the first interim efficacy analysis

www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-vaccine-candidate-against

Going to ClinicalTrials.gov, the exclusion criteria confirms that potential subjects who had a positive test for Sars-Cov-2 and symptoms are excluded from participation:

Exclusion Criteria

Previous clinical (based on COVID-19 symptoms/signs alone, if a SARS-CoV-2 NAAT result was not available) or microbiological (based on COVID-19 symptoms/signs and a positive SARS-CoV-2 NAAT result) diagnosis of COVID 19

clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728?term=pfizer+covid&draw=2&rank=1

The SARS-CoV-2 NAAT is also commonly known as Diagnostic test, viral test, molecular test, nucleic acid amplification test (NAAT), RT-PCR test, LAMP test.

www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/coronavirus-disease-2019-testing-basics

Since this group of subjects has been excluded from the trial, the efficacy and safety of the vaccine can not be known for them. Therefore, people such as Pres. Trump, Milania Trump, Baron Trump, Boris Johnson, Rand Paul and many others would not be, so far, candidates for the vaccine.

Absent another clinical trial which would include those previously infected and recovered, if you've had Covid19 symptoms and a positive test, I guess you're screwed.

I think PFE prioritized in order to move quickly for the most people. Hopefully they will be doing a trial on people such as those on your list in the future. And there are other Vax in the works. Between mutations, people who have tested negative soon after testing positive, the typhoid Marys etc. I think that there will be many groups of patients. Best to focus first on those who are NOT believed to have been infected as they are the majority (so far). Then there's the nasal spray, as well.

Last Edit: Nov 12, 2020 20:08:42 GMT by miamianne67

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A Large & Growing Number Not Eligible for PFE Vaccine?

Post by icemandios on Nov 11, 2020 16:04:04 GMT

Post by lookingforatenbagger on Nov 11, 2020 17:49:17 GMT

Post by icemandios on Nov 11, 2020 18:39:20 GMT

Post by lookingforatenbagger on Nov 11, 2020 18:54:24 GMT

Post by greys on Nov 12, 2020 19:27:14 GMT

Post by miamianne67 on Nov 12, 2020 20:08:02 GMT

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