Post by dnr08 on Feb 22, 2021 12:10:46 GMT
I am very much a novice when it comes to options. For some time I've wondered about the price action of Opko common around options expiration dates. I've asked a few questions in the shout box, and Ice has provided some very good info. Highskier, Cosomatic, Gutset and others have also weighed in with great observations and personal experiences. Per Ice's recommendation, I'm starting a thread to codify this discussion. The shout box comment and response thread is below. I first asked a question of Highskier about a post on Stocktwits. And then the topic of options came up....here you go. Welcome to all who can comment further.
DNR: 'skier, can you put this Twits post in easy terms for us TA-challenged? For starters, what is the 12 month uptrend line? The post: "Making my call now: Maybe BULLS will listen this time. OPK trades down to 12 month uptrend line within the next 30 days. Uptrend line at $4.15 in 30 days it will be around $4.35 so anything .10 close to the uptrendline is a buy. So monday $4.25 or in 30 days $4.45. This is my call get ready to buy but do not buy too soon this pig still needs to bleed a bit more."
COSOMATIC: I believe that the drop was options driven. There were a ton of calls that just evaporated today and those with puts got rewarded with a trip from 5.76 to 4.63. I think a little covering got us back to 4.81. I did learn something today. The bid was so low I was just going to take the entire loss on my $4 calls, got the last week at 1.26, and I called TD and they told me I could simply buy the 5,000 shares at 4$ and turn around and sell them at 4.97 which was the market price, with only a .29 loss...
ICE: Yes, with the litany of reasons why OPK is cursed, scant attention is payed to the fact that it has the "benefit" of WEEKLY options manipulations.
DNR: I'm glad Ice brought up the options. This is one area where I'm pre-novice. Since I avoid the entire space, I have no idea whether all listed companies have options. Do they? If so, who/what determines that? And for those that have options, do all have weekly options, like Opko? Is that the norm, is it rare? And again, who/what decides if a company has weeklies? Guidance for the uninitiated please.
ICE: No, the company has no more control of options than where we are listed. finance.yahoo.com/quote/OPK.MX?p=OPK.MX&.tsrc=fin-srch en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Stock_Exchange
GUTSET: I don’t think the company has any saying on that, it’s up to the exchange. The requirements to trade options are 7M shares and 2K shareholders. In the 80s I was trading OEX options on a daily basis. In 1987 I paid Merrill over $40K in commissions. That was the year of the crash. In March I was ahead $120k and by the end of October I was down about $50K. Back then each option trade was over $100 each way, At least for the # of contracts I was trading. Now it’s much cheaper but just as dangerous.
Then, in all the cutting and pasting, I think I accidentally deleted a comment from ICE with some stats about the number of stock that have listed options, further broken down by how many under $5, under $10 have options etc.
But ICE did continue with:
ICE: This is getting to be something that might belong in a thread. Might be news to a few more than just you. Main reason being the aborted delisting from the TSA may be the answer to whether the company has any say in where it's listed and the options. Of the 32 under $10 w/ wkly options, 7 are healthcare, 6 are oil&gas, 3 are gold, and 4 are ETF's that should not have been in a list of common stocks. So make that 28 common stocks under $10 of the 582 common listed w/ wkly options.
So, all who have some insight on this topic, please contribute. For my part, I just feel like, with Opko, if it's not one thing (who's got the damn slides??!!), it's another (options shenanigans). So I'd like to learn more about the latter. Thank you.
DNR: 'skier, can you put this Twits post in easy terms for us TA-challenged? For starters, what is the 12 month uptrend line? The post: "Making my call now: Maybe BULLS will listen this time. OPK trades down to 12 month uptrend line within the next 30 days. Uptrend line at $4.15 in 30 days it will be around $4.35 so anything .10 close to the uptrendline is a buy. So monday $4.25 or in 30 days $4.45. This is my call get ready to buy but do not buy too soon this pig still needs to bleed a bit more."
COSOMATIC: I believe that the drop was options driven. There were a ton of calls that just evaporated today and those with puts got rewarded with a trip from 5.76 to 4.63. I think a little covering got us back to 4.81. I did learn something today. The bid was so low I was just going to take the entire loss on my $4 calls, got the last week at 1.26, and I called TD and they told me I could simply buy the 5,000 shares at 4$ and turn around and sell them at 4.97 which was the market price, with only a .29 loss...
ICE: Yes, with the litany of reasons why OPK is cursed, scant attention is payed to the fact that it has the "benefit" of WEEKLY options manipulations.
DNR: I'm glad Ice brought up the options. This is one area where I'm pre-novice. Since I avoid the entire space, I have no idea whether all listed companies have options. Do they? If so, who/what determines that? And for those that have options, do all have weekly options, like Opko? Is that the norm, is it rare? And again, who/what decides if a company has weeklies? Guidance for the uninitiated please.
ICE: No, the company has no more control of options than where we are listed. finance.yahoo.com/quote/OPK.MX?p=OPK.MX&.tsrc=fin-srch en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Stock_Exchange
GUTSET: I don’t think the company has any saying on that, it’s up to the exchange. The requirements to trade options are 7M shares and 2K shareholders. In the 80s I was trading OEX options on a daily basis. In 1987 I paid Merrill over $40K in commissions. That was the year of the crash. In March I was ahead $120k and by the end of October I was down about $50K. Back then each option trade was over $100 each way, At least for the # of contracts I was trading. Now it’s much cheaper but just as dangerous.
Then, in all the cutting and pasting, I think I accidentally deleted a comment from ICE with some stats about the number of stock that have listed options, further broken down by how many under $5, under $10 have options etc.
But ICE did continue with:
ICE: This is getting to be something that might belong in a thread. Might be news to a few more than just you. Main reason being the aborted delisting from the TSA may be the answer to whether the company has any say in where it's listed and the options. Of the 32 under $10 w/ wkly options, 7 are healthcare, 6 are oil&gas, 3 are gold, and 4 are ETF's that should not have been in a list of common stocks. So make that 28 common stocks under $10 of the 582 common listed w/ wkly options.
So, all who have some insight on this topic, please contribute. For my part, I just feel like, with Opko, if it's not one thing (who's got the damn slides??!!), it's another (options shenanigans). So I'd like to learn more about the latter. Thank you.
